December 26, 2022

Exploration as a Gay Black Man: JaBarie Anderson

In this podcast episode, JaBarie discusses his experiences with dating as a gay Black man in New York City. He highlights the fetishization and stereotyping he has encountered and the difficulties of trying to be respected as a person rather than being put into a specific category. JaBarie also mentions his preference for his ideal relationship style with a set of rules rather than denying his partner the opportunity to explore and potentially causing them to lie. He and Stephanie also discuss how social media has impacted dating and the importance of communication in relationships.

Listen the full episode on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Google Podcasts.

[00:00:00] JaBarie: Ooh, . Please elaborate on that way. Okay, so I'm not to expose myself.

Ooh, this is spicy. I watch this. Okay. Did someone put jalapenos in the air or something like

[00:00:24] Stephanie: Today, on Beyond Dating, JaBarie shared with us how he experiences a long distance relationship openly.

And our sponsor for today's episodes is Beyond the newest dating app in town. Check it out at Date Beyond dot. [00:01:00] Big

[00:01:00] JaBarie: Gulps. Big cups was so good. Water. Gatorade, . Oh look, Jesus did it again. did it again.


[00:01:16] Stephanie: so what's it like dating as a gay black male in New York

[00:01:21] JaBarie: City? . Um, crazy actually. I like to say it's a little bit all over the place. Um, you're either truly liked or you're fetishized. Mm-hmm. . . So you wanna expand on that? I, I need to hear more. So

[00:01:40] Stephanie: what's the craziest thing?

[00:01:42] JaBarie: that you've come across.

Okay. So one of the craziest things I've come across is, uh, let's see, you're going on a date. You're like, oh, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be fun. And then you show up and the guy's like, oh, you're not as black as I thought you were gonna be. I'm like, well elaborate. Oh, you sound, you [00:02:00] sound too educated.

Or, oh, I thought you would wear a baseball cap or you would wear a bag of your clothes. So, You're sitting there like, wow, this is kind of effed up. Wow. The stereotypes are strong. They are, especially in the gay community, they're extremely strong.

[00:02:18] Stephanie: Okay, so I, I need to hear

[00:02:20] JaBarie: more elaborate on that. Like we have to elaborate more so.

You have guys who are like, oh, we want masks for masks. We need something a little bit more like, mm. Or you know, uh, you can present mask or, you know, feminine, but they don't want you to be too feminine or too masculine. You can't be in the middle. They don't understand aggress the concept of that. So when you're someone who lies right in between, it gets really confusing for a lot of people cuz they don't know what to do with you.

in the gay community, people are so used to being boxing or put into categories, but, you know, as a, you know, a black person, I just wanna be a person in general and be respected as [00:03:00] such instead of an object or put into a category. Mm-hmm. , if that makes sense.

[00:03:05] Stephanie: Yeah, I, I think that totally makes sense. I definitely, I mean, I.

I'm in the alphabet mafia, not a man, but I definitely have been hypersexualized and fetishized as a black woman. So that's, it's very interesting to explore dating in

[00:03:22] JaBarie: that way. Yes. Yeah, it's truly crazy.

[00:03:26] Stephanie: So what's your, you know, ideal relationship style and type then

[00:03:30] JaBarie: I would like to say, . I like a little bit of everything.

I can't really say I'm truly in like one area. Um, I do like little openness to my relationship. Um, I truly feel people are, you know, everyone looks, and if I'm gonna say, okay, we're closing this off, I don't want you to do anything. The reality is you're gonna look, you're gonna wanna do things, you're gonna wanna touch something.

And if I deny you of that and you move through the world, and it [00:04:00] happens. You feel like you have to lie to me. Instead, I would just like to leave it open on the table with a little set of rules, have fun, but also respect me and respect our rules. Mm-hmm. ,

[00:04:12] Stephanie: so how, how do you share with your partner that respect, you know, or how are you, what do you want your partner to do to show you that respect?

[00:04:25] JaBarie: Well, personally, for. My relationships. Uh, some partners they don't, they don't care to know, but also if something comes up to just be honest enough to say, Hey, this happened, or if they're like, I don't want to know. Respect those boundaries, or, you know, I don't want anything public. Respect those as well and just make sure.

equally, everyone's respected in that you still come back to the table and have love for each other and that it's known that it's there. Mm-hmm. . So

[00:04:56] Stephanie: what are some ways your partners can share with you [00:05:00] that they love you when you're navigating in these open relationships?

[00:05:04] JaBarie: Oh, just showing up, being there for me when I need you to be, uh, supporting me.

You know, I have my own business, so sometimes I need help or, you know, I'm emotionally down and I need someone to really be there. Pick me up. I love food, so if you can cook for me, that's a love language. If you can rub my back, that's a love language. I don't need all the, I love yous all the time. I. I need the, the actions of it more than anything.

So do you have like

[00:05:33] Stephanie: a, a love, a primary love language that you, you know, prefer? Or do you

[00:05:40] JaBarie: just like to explore them all? I like to explore them all, but I have to say like my top, top, top one is, . I love food. So you can cook me foodie. You bring it to me. I'm just like, oh my God, you love me so much. You made me a sandwich.

What kinda sandwich? Ooh, I [00:06:00] love shrimp sandwiches. What? I don't think I've ever had a shrimp sandwich. So let me tell you about a shrimp sandwich. Oh my gosh. Tell me more. So you can get pepper jack cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, onions. And it's regular onions or

[00:06:15] Stephanie: like

[00:06:15] JaBarie: caramelized onions. Caramelized onions, because if you do the regular ones, it's like really strong.

I like 'em, you know, a little cook some, you know what? A little burnt? Mm. Yeah. Little burnt, you know? And you put all that shit on a nice, you know, Hero, that's what they say. And then you toast it even more and it's got that little crunch and then you bite it. Mm-hmm. . Mm, oh my gosh. All my senses are going right now.

They're, they're going, I'm just like, oh my God, I'm in love. Let's go have sex.

[00:06:45] Stephanie: So

[00:06:45] JaBarie: sandwich goes into sex. Yeah, pretty

[00:06:48] Stephanie: much. How? How does that happen?

[00:06:50] JaBarie: It's just like food makes me so happy. Like I don't eat dining rings and a lot of shoes and clothes. Small things matter to me, [00:07:00] just little tiny. I. inputs of like actions just showing me. Mm-hmm. , I grew up in a household at a young age where, you know, my grandfather went to work, he worked, um, he did for us.

So he showed his love more than telling us. And that's something that I realized is a lot more important than someone telling you they love you. Mm-hmm. , anyone can say they love you. It takes an action to actually show that they love you. Mm-hmm. . So I think that's one. Big things for me and our relationship is showing me that you love me.

Mm-hmm. .

[00:07:28] Stephanie: So what are some actions that you've seen, you know, in your community that you know you've wanted to like, repeat or want? Human body

[00:07:39] JaBarie: honesty. Mm-hmm. people just being honest with themselves and who they are and just living in the truth. I think that's one of the things that I've seen a lot that I need to take on more myself, especially coming from.

uh, black household. You know, sometimes we're oppressed within our own household to act a certain way, be a certain way, and walk through life a certain way, [00:08:00] that when you finally step into your truth, you know, being a gay black man, it's just like, okay, it's okay to be a little softer. It's okay to cry. Um, it's okay to be needy.

It's okay to say you need help. And I think being gay or being more open to different things, it's like showed me a different side of myself that I didn't see before. . Sorry I don't have to be so harsh walking everywhere, but I'm working on it still though.

[00:08:26] Stephanie: I mean, aren't we all ? So do you have any tips for anyone who's, you know, struggling and struggling to, you know, be that honest, authentic

[00:08:34] JaBarie: self?

Um, any tips? I would just have to say, uh, do for you, do for you. Do what makes you feel good. If you have to step away from family, it's okay if you have to change your phone number and really move away and just really self-love and get therapy. I think therapy is the number one thing. Um, talk to your friends.

[00:09:00] Uh, be honest with your friends and hope that they're understanding that sometimes you're gonna need a little bit more love from them than they were expecting to give at times. I think sometimes in friendships, People tend to not know what to do or how to approach certain situations, but I personally feel I have a good core group of friends who understand where I come from and will also tell me wrong from Ry, or be like, Hey, you need to love yourself or appreciate yourself a little bit more.

So I think those are some great

[00:09:26] Stephanie: tips. And then what ways can, what's, what's an appropriate way to share with your friends? Like, oh, you need to love yourself more, or take care of yourself in this certain way.

[00:09:40] JaBarie: Because I'm a personal stylist, my way of kind of like showing and walking my friends to is, you know, we're going shopping.

Hey, don't, don't tell me you want to, you know, dress a certain way cuz you wanna impress somebody, dress a certain way cuz you wanna impress and love yourself and you wanna show up for yourself. The most important person to show up for in a day is [00:10:00] yourself. The most important person to look good for in a day is you.

So I think those are ways I show my friends and kind of. Help them. And if you're not a stylist, I mean even just going a walk, talk, whatever they wanna talk about. Just talk about it even if you don't understand open ears. get deep in conversation and just like, Hey, I thank you. Just love yourself. I think you don't really appreciate yourself enough, but I'm telling you, I'm hearing you.

I'm seeing you. I think you're an amazing person. Also, giving love is another way that then people realize, oh, some they need that. Mm-hmm. , so

[00:10:36] Stephanie: how do you, how did you. Increase your confidence

[00:10:41] JaBarie: then. Um, one 800. I grew up with a black mother,

Can I call that number right? She was like, fuck everything else. You get out there, you smile, you hold your head up high, you know? So over time, if you, you walk in the truth, sometimes you become [00:11:00] that truth. And I think over time I became who I was supposed to be. Mm-hmm. . So here we. Here we are. Here we are.

Fabulous. This fabulous

[00:11:09] Stephanie: person sitting right in front of me. I love it.

[00:11:11] JaBarie: You're fabulous. You're . Ooh, we got

[00:11:13] Stephanie: the boots. We got, you know, I had to put on my overalls for

[00:11:16] JaBarie: you. So the overall, so we can kick it with the, uh, Midwest vibes. Oh, yes. You

[00:11:20] Stephanie: know, big Midwestern vibes

[00:11:22] JaBarie: over here, . Oh, Midwest. And we made it here to New York City.

Yes, we're in the city. Bricks. So

[00:11:29] Stephanie: what took you from the Midwest? To here, the big apple.

[00:11:34] JaBarie: Um, well, back to what we were saying earlier, like how do you find yourself, I separated myself from my family. Mm-hmm. . Um, I wanted to see who I truly was on my own. Um, and I think that was an important part of finding myself and being myself.

When I was back home, I wasn't as out and open with, you know, being gay or, uh, being as truthful with myself. So when I moved to New York, I was able to, f molding to who [00:12:00] I was like, really be free. Um, and even build more confidence cuz I came here and I was by myself completely. I built a New York family.

Uh, I had to completely start over again with work. Um, , finding different inner circles moving throughout the world. I traveled for the first time to Europe at 24, and even then just building more confidence to travel by myself. You know, once you leave your hometown, then you go on to the next step. You leave the country.

Then after you leave the country, you kind of take yourself brand and yourself awareness, and you take it somewhere else and see how you know it affects other people. And just if you, if you don't think you have love for yourself, you have love yourself once you move away from your hometown. It takes a lot of courage.


[00:12:44] Stephanie: courage I think is very important. Yes. You know? So how do you define courage?

[00:12:50] JaBarie: Courage. Waking up every morning. It takes a lot. Waking up, getting ready. Some people don't get outta bed and they don't have the courage [00:13:00] to, or the willpower, so mm-hmm. , I, I think just. being there, being present in your own life?

Mm-hmm. . .

[00:13:09] Stephanie: Okay. So we're gonna get into a little more spicy stuff. So spicy. Are you single? Are you in a relationship?

[00:13:17] JaBarie: I am in a relationship. Ooh.

[00:13:19] Stephanie: How is that

[00:13:19] JaBarie: relationship set up? Mm, well, O Oof. It's getting hot in here. . It's hot in here. It's set up. It's, it's going, uh, it's open. Mm-hmm. somewhat, I like to say, um, I'm not too familiar with all the different paths of like, openness, but I'm just like, you know what?

We're somewhat open, just truthful. Uh, my partner does live overseas and I do live here in New York, so I think open is just a little bit easier to go with. Everyone has their wants and needs every now and then.

[00:13:51] Stephanie: So, you know, what tips would you have for somebody who is, you know, exploring a long distance relationship like that?

[00:13:59] JaBarie: [00:14:00] Ooh. Communication talk, FaceTime, play on the phone. You know? Just play on the phone. Play on the phone. Yes. Mm. Sometimes you just gotta call. Ooh, . Please elaborate on that one. Okay, so I'm about to expose myself.

Ooh, this is spicy. Okay. Someone put jalapenos in the air or something like,

You know, phone, sex, you know, mutual masturbation on the phone. Mm-hmm. , you know, play around, jerk off at your partner. Uh, talk dirty, like, just deep fantasies like, Ooh, I wanna do it in a fitting room, or I wanna do it here. Just take 'em on a mental journey. Just talk to him. Mm-hmm. like, yeah. Take your boxes off.

Boy. , [00:15:00] please tell me more. You know, um, keep going. I just, I just think distance makes everything like, , I feel a lot different. Mm-hmm. . So then when you're finally there in person, it's like, you know what? You was talking all that shit on the phone. You gotta follow through now you gotta follow through. Oof.

Better spit in my mouth. .

[00:15:22] Stephanie: So what's your favorite line when you're on the phone in getting spicy? I'm

[00:15:27] JaBarie: like, yeah, show me. Show me what you're doing down there. You gonna play with it for. Oh, you are? Mm-hmm. , . Oof. You know, I, I'm feeling these eyes right now. I don't know. Are you flirting with me right now? No, I'm not gonna be, if you want me to.

I mean, mm. .

[00:15:46] Stephanie: This is beyond

[00:15:47] JaBarie: After Dark . Beyond Beyond the Sheets

uh, um, so, [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Stephanie: Wow. I just, I just got

[00:16:01] JaBarie: lost in that. Got lost for a minute. I couldn't Okay. , you got too spicy for me.

[00:16:09] Stephanie: Okay. So how did you and your partner communicate about getting into an open relationship?

[00:16:17] JaBarie: Uh, that communication started really early on in the relationship. Um, first off, , he wasn't supposed to be my boyfriend. It was a trip plan . It was a trip plan to Europe, I think do believe either for my 27th or 28th birthday.

Uh, before the pandemic, the pandemic hits. Um, I had used Tinder and Bumble, like explore to like meet different people. And we were talking, I was like, Hey, I just wanna, you know, do hair for people. So the plan was go shoot videos of me cutting people's hair, um, specifically black hair and ask, asking the experience of being, you know, gay and black in other [00:17:00] countries.

And then, uh, the pandemic hit wasn't able to. , uh, we started talking and FaceTiming and then it was like, oh, I like you. I'm gonna marry you one day, boo. And I was like, okay. Before we go any deeper, like, I'd prefer this be open due to previous relationships not working out or cheating being a thing, or long distance being a thing.

I thought it was just important to kind of leave the door cracked a little bit and not feel so constricted to not being able to explore different things. Mm. Threesomes. Sex parties, sex parties,

[00:17:39] Stephanie: So, um, on the, you mentioned like the cheating, you know? Yeah. Like you're in our open relationship. You know, what, what does cheating look like in an open relationship

[00:17:49] JaBarie: then? Well, specifically for me, cheating would be lying about something. Okay. You're lying. Instead of just being like, you know what? We hooked up a couple times.

Okay, cool. Whatever. Um, but going [00:18:00] into a whole nother relationship with someone like no. sex is one thing, but falling in love with someone else is completely different. Mm-hmm. , I feel like sex is sex. We can have fun all day, we can explore, do different things in different places, and it just be fun. But to go off and lie to yourself about loving someone else is cheating to me.

Mm-hmm. .

[00:18:22] Stephanie: So, um, you travel and you're, you're openly gay, you travel with your partner. What is it like international? You know, being an openly gay, fabulous man, , you are.

[00:18:34] JaBarie: I haven't had, I can't say I've had too many issues. Um, I think the one thing people love to do is take pictures of us when, when, when we're together.

So I think that's pretty weird. I've, I mean, it happens New York, but it happens way more overseas. You're like a celebrity. Sometimes people don't actually think we're a couple, they think we're like friends. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, oh wow. That's great. Mm. What friends do this[00:19:00]

give them a good show. Yes.

[00:19:05] Stephanie: So where do you see yourself, you know, in the future with your relationships? Would you keep your relationship open if it was not long distance, or would you keep it

[00:19:20] JaBarie: closed off or? I think I would still. Like to see it open. I would still like to see a little spiciness, bring a little third in maybe a fourth.

I don't know. As I get older, um, I'm exploring more of my sexuality and things that I like, you know? Cause before I look back home, it wasn't too much of a output to like really do any of that stuff with. From Michigan. What, what is there? What even is it ? But ? Yeah. Then you moved to New York and you're like, oh, wow, kind of, this girl's really cute.

Like, I wanna kiss her. Oh, this guy's hot, or, mm. Yeah. Okay. Maybe I could have both. Mm-hmm. And so you're, you want to [00:20:00] explore these things and as you, you. Get into a relationship, maybe your partner's like, Hey, I want to try this to it. Like, whoa, whoa, let's go. Let's do it. Take your clothes off, .

[00:20:10] Stephanie: So what does your ideal relationship look like then?

If you could design one?

[00:20:14] JaBarie: If I could design one free. Free. Just free. That's all I have to say. I mean, I want everything, uh, everything, everything. Everything. What does everything mean? Everything , you know, um, oof. I, I don't, I don't really know sometimes, but I have to say, I'm definitely down with anything that comes my way.

Now I'm a lot more comfortable. So, back to threesomes, sex parties, women, men, I like, you know, I, I love everything. So I think that's, That's amazing.

[00:20:57] Stephanie: Yeah, I like free. Free. That [00:21:00] sounds good. And fun. Free sex parties vibes.

[00:21:03] JaBarie: Run down the street. Naked .

[00:21:04] Stephanie: I mean, I would do it if I wouldn't get arrested.

[00:21:07] JaBarie: Truly. You know, if I could wear my underwear to the grocery store, I'd probably do it.

I mean, you

[00:21:12] Stephanie: can in some places you can't. Definitely seen it in ,

[00:21:17] JaBarie: out in the streets. Seen it in New York. I've seen it in Miami too. Oh my goodness. Ooh. It gets wild over there.

[00:21:27] Stephanie: is there any tips that you have for anyone curious about opening their relationship or exploring their sexuality?

[00:21:39] JaBarie: Do it and do it fa, like do it, but have like some common ground rules to what you're gonna do. Um, don't take anything. . Um, everyone has different things that they like, so I think just being open and honest with each other on what it is that each person wants.

If you're gonna do things [00:22:00] together, do them together. If you're gonna do them separately, do them separately, um, yeah, just put it out there on

[00:22:09] Stephanie: not taking things personally. How do, how do you do that?

[00:22:14] JaBarie: Um, so for instance, uh, My partner prefers not to know certain things. Um, so I don't speak on a lot of things.

Also, um, just respecting when he's around. Like if someone walks up to me, just let him know, Hey, like this is my partner. Uh, he then doesn't take things personal, but you know, if those that wasn't there and someones to come up to me and I was like, Hey, yeah, just all in their face, then it's disrespecting him.

Mm-hmm. . So I just wanna make. , those things are protected. Yeah.

[00:22:47] Stephanie: So you have good boundaries and healthy

[00:22:49] JaBarie: communication together. Yes. Communication is key.

[00:22:51] Stephanie: Yes. And then do you have any tips for communicating with partners or friends or anyone,

[00:22:59] JaBarie: [00:23:00] um, communicating with your partners? Um, I. Don't talk down to them in situations.

Hear them out. If you need time to, you know, breathe or think about something, take time back and then come back to the table. Don't let things go unspoken for too long. Otherwise, anger builds up. One person feels neglected. And then even with friends, um, same vibes. Go just be real with each other. If you love your friends, definitely tell you.

You love, tell your friends that you love them. You gotta, you gotta tell them that you love them. Otherwise it's like, oh, you don't love me or you don't care about me. Like we used to be good friends and it's just like, be open and honest, even if it hurts or you feel stupid. Speak. You have to mm-hmm. and

[00:23:47] Stephanie: always make you a sandwich.

Always make

[00:23:49] JaBarie: you a sandwich. You, or randomly drop your dog off at my house. . I

[00:23:54] Stephanie: mean, I will fly my dog out here. You can have him do it

[00:23:57] JaBarie: whenever you want. Your dog's gonna be spoiled.

[00:23:59] Stephanie: I, oh, [00:24:00] I know that. He

[00:24:00] JaBarie: already is.

[00:24:04] Stephanie: do you have any other rules that you have in your relationships?

[00:24:08] JaBarie: No, just don't embarrass me. That's about it. Don't embarrass me. What would embarrass you? I don't want someone randomly calling my phone telling me something. Oh my gosh. Facts don't, don't do that. Has that happened? Do you have an example?

We're not gonna talk about it, but it it oof It did. And it wasn't the other person. It was me. It was, it was somebody that I talked to and I didn't realize they were in a relationship. Their partner decided to stalk my partner. Oh no, but that backfired. Oh, . I know

[00:24:45] Stephanie: you, you don't wanna go into it, so I won't.

I'll follow up with

[00:24:48] JaBarie: that.

you said spicy. What you talking about? Well gimme

[00:24:55] Stephanie: some spicy stuff. What's spicy? What's spiciest thing? Spicy that,

[00:24:59] JaBarie: hold on. Wait, can [00:25:00] I ask you questions? Yeah, you can ask me a question. Okay. Okay. Mm. What's the spiciest thing you've done on a first date


[00:25:15] Stephanie: spiciest thing I've done on a first date. I think this is probably gonna get flagged on the

[00:25:24] JaBarie: internet. It's okay. But, um,

[00:25:30] Stephanie: Like group

[00:25:32] JaBarie: sex. That's not that bad. I don't, I mean, I haven't done it, but if I was to do it, I think it would be fun. Yeah. At least you know what they, they're capable of doing, right? Yeah. And I

[00:25:42] Stephanie: was like, oh, okay. I know that you can play well with others. You're

[00:25:46] JaBarie: not jealous. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . That sounds fun.

That was an, that's an interesting story, . That is, that is really fun. That's where a whole different, whole different [00:26:00] podcast. . . Keep going to jail. . Oh no. I'm gonna go to social media Jail sometimes time. I mean, luckily

[00:26:11] Stephanie: I got a key hidden somewhere. It's tucked

[00:26:13] JaBarie: away. Yes.


[00:26:21] Stephanie: Ooh, when you're on, do you use dating? You use dating apps? I do. Okay. So what's the CRT thing that anybody's ever said to you on a dating

[00:26:33] JaBarie: app? Mm,

I don't really know. I think. . Mm. I think the thing I hate the most are questions about, are you masculine or feminine? I'm just like, who cares? Stop asking these dumb questions. Just go with the flow of the vibes. Or like you're on a dating app and they're like, oh, do you wanna do it [00:27:00] now? It's just like, get to know me a little bit first.

Like, season me up a little bit, marinate me, and then let's go in for the kill. I mean, you

[00:27:07] Stephanie: know, you gotta, you gotta always have that seasoning out a little

[00:27:10] JaBarie: spice that seasoning, that little spice.

[00:27:12] Stephanie: So how would you improve a dating app? Ooh. What features would you want? What vibe would you

[00:27:18] JaBarie: want? I definitely, um, I want a field of varieties.

I can go down, uh, rather it's, Talking to a straight guy, straight female, um, gay, bi, trans. Like I would just, I love to explore all those little areas. Um, definitely a lot of more upfrontness. Uh, I don't think a lot of people read your bios at all cuz they just skip over it. But something that makes them read it before they go further, it's like, okay.

Usually at the top they have like the message button or whatever the case is, and you click it and you just message somebody, like maybe it has you answer questions as you go [00:28:00] along. Then once you answer the questions and they'll let you message someone and then it's like, boom, this is fun. That's interesting.

Maybe, um, a little bit more intimate before speaking so they know, rather they wanna spin or take time speaking with you. So then how

[00:28:15] Stephanie: intimate would you have to get before you know,

[00:28:19] JaBarie: oh, I don't know. , like ask like, what are your favorite sexual positions? Do you like it in in at night? Do you like it in the morning?

Do you like with the lights on off? Are you open to different things? Open relationships, like all these different questions so you can know exactly where you are. Mm-hmm. or where the other person is and they're like, okay, they just wanna go watch movies. I mean, I watch movies, but I might want to get a blowjob in the movie theaters, but I'm just saying, you know, just.

Questions asked, like more engagement. I feel like people don't pay attention anymore. They just go right in and ask questions and I'm like, [00:29:00] well now you've wasted both of our time cuz you're not really into what I'm into. Mm-hmm. . Wow. This has

[00:29:06] Stephanie: been an eye-opening for me, , and very, very fun. Thank you so much for chatting with me.

Exposing me a little bit.

[00:29:18] JaBarie: Oh, well. Cheers to you. Cheers. Woo.

This is good.

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